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New binding jig.
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4389		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:32 pm ]
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Well, I've never been happy with my binding setup (router and small roller guide). So I decided to make my own like many of you. I based it on the Larrivee/West/guitar jigs design, sort of.

Here are some pics for ya'll. It was very inexpensive to build, like under $5 for materials and $25 for the router bit (spiral down cut). All Canadian, so that is like $1.50 US for the materials and $4.75 US for the bit .

Anyway, hope this can help someone. I do plan on mounting a fine adjustment bolt or screw under the support arm at some point.
The nice thing with this design is that you can realy mount it anywhere. On the bench, in a vice, screw it to the wall. Now I just have to try it out. Wish me luck.



Author:  Arnt Rian [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:46 pm ]
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It should work well, set up might be a bit cumbersome tho. Practice on scrap to see how it behaves, then go for it! I use a similar jig and like it a lot. Mine has bearings that index off the sides, I'm sure yours will work just as well.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:42 pm ]
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Hey Rod, on all of the ones I have seen, two..., at David Webber's and Ted Thompson's the caul that the top/back of the guitar rests on is quite a bit smaller. Yours looked well "formed" so you have prabably considered that.

Lookin' good!

Shane
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:26 pm ]
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Would a smaller caul make it possible to switch between flat-top and carve-top instruments more easily? (Or, the
larger caul could be made so that it's removeable/interchangeable to allow for different joint geometries.)

Jim Kirby
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:02 pm ]
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Clever
Author:  Dickey [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:17 pm ]
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Keep it simple is a good motto. An old chainsaw adjuster and you are all set. No need to reinvent the wheel eh?

One suggestion you may consider. After bending some tough old cocobolo with wild grain the sides were less than flat in places. So a pair of rub points might work better in practice than a solid rub block.

Way to go!
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:05 am ]
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Thanks guys, the caul footprint is big, but as you noticed Shane, it is formed to be a small contact point. The caul is attached with double sided tape (I love double sided tape) so I can always take it off and reshape or just put something different on.

Bruce, do you meen changing the UHMW rub block to two points, one at the front and one at the back? I could just cut a long notch in it on the band saw.

I plan on cutting the back side binding channel tonight, I'll let you know if it worked or if those of you on the west coast feel a small earthquake, it's just me throwing the thing all over the shop, but I think it will work fine, I did some test pieces last night and they worked fine. I think it will just take some practice to run the guitar around it.
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:17 am ]
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   Cool. I'd like to try that system as well. Here's a little jig I've copied off somewhere on the net. It's oak and birch and has a ton of bearings (that I had lying around the shop). Works o.k., I guess. Never really tried it on a guitar (closing up number one now) but the carriage where router sits is dead level (maybe not such a good thing, though)... Cheers
Author:  Daniel M [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:52 am ]
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Hey Rod;
I used a similar rig for a few guitars & found it worked better once I carved a curve into the rub strip. (between the two screws on your setup) This will leave you with two points of contact rather than riding on the whole length of the strip. Makes for less friction & discrepancies in the sides will have less effect on the cuts.
Author:  ATaylor [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:11 am ]
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Man, this forum is just the best. I think I'll stop trying to build guitars and just read this forum all the time.
I used the stewmac router tool for my first guitar's binding channel and was less than impressed w/ the results. It relies more on top/bottom reference than side reference. All the other binding router setups seemed large, complicated and contrived. And now this simple, easy to build one comes along. Cool!
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:45 am ]
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Yup, that is the beauty of these types of jigs they hard reference off the sides so you want the 'depth' reference (which would be the width of your binding for instance) to be as close to the outside edge of the guitar as is safely possible so that you get a consistent depth of cut irrespective of top/back radius.

Shane
Author:  Dickey [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:58 am ]
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[QUOTE=Rod True] Bruce, do you meen changing the UHMW rub block to two points, one at the front and one at the back? I could just cut a long notch in it on the band saw.[/QUOTE]

Yep, two points to eliminate any irregularities in the surface causing the guitar to rock on a high point.

Congratulations by the way, building a simple tool like this to do a difficult job is fantastic.
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:17 am ]
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Thanks Bruce and all for the kind words.

I will trim that rub block down in the middle to ensure the body is resting on the outer ends only.
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:17 am ]
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Alan, glad I could help in some way for you.
Author:  Scott Thompson [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:36 am ]
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Hey Rod,

This is great! I've been wanting to get away from my oversized, over engineered jig and I've been admiring the simplicity of the way Taylor cuts their bindings and wanting to copy them. Have you seen their video? Looks like you figured it out for me. Thanks!
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:56 am ]
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Scott, I have not seen the factory friday video on binding. I should take a look at it.
Author:  ATaylor [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:00 am ]
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You da MAN!!!
Author:  Scott Thompson [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:10 am ]
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[QUOTE=Rod True] Scott, I have not seen the factory friday video on binding. I should take a look at it.[/QUOTE]

Part of the Factory Friday series. Binding part 1 (This is the high bandwidth version.)
Author:  Wayne Clark [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:19 am ]
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Rod, your jig seems similar in function to the binding jig at guitarjigs.com. I notice they also reduce the side-contact area to two points although it looks like they use rollers.

I like it -- a simple solution to the problem. Thanks for the pictures.
Author:  LouisianaGrey [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:23 am ]
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I use the Guitarjigs jig and it is very similar - it's also based on the Larrivee jig. Those aren't rollers, though, the spindles are actually solid aluminium.

The downside of having only two points of contact is that if you have a guitar with a shallower than normal side, like my travel guitars, then the side doesn't rest on both ends of the spindle.
Author:  LarryH [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:40 pm ]
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[QUOTE=ATaylor] Man, this forum is just the best. I think I'll stop trying to build guitars and just read this forum all the time. [/quote]

Too late for me, haven't touched a tool since discovering this forum.

[quote]I used the stewmac router tool for my first guitar's binding channel and was less than impressed w/ the results. It relies more on top/bottom reference than side reference. All the other binding router setups seemed large, complicated and contrived. And now this simple, easy to build one comes along. Cool! [/QUOTE]

Yeah, COOL! Thanks Rod, I know what I'll build now that I am waiting for my new kit to arrive - If I ever stop reading this forum that is.

LarryLarryH38723.8625810185
Author:  Dickey [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:53 pm ]
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Rod, while you are considering the two rub points, you might as well consider one other adjustment.

I have a commercially produced unit. The problem of fixed rub points is that it is possible to lean the guitar into the cavity between the rub block near the cutter. This makes a nasty gouge into the binding ledges.

After modification, my setup now is adjustable and closes the gap between the rub blocks and the cutter. I usually have no more than the thickness of a business card between the rub block and the cutter blade. No way to tip the guitar body in there now.

I'll see if I can dummy up a photo and add it here.


The adjustment could be as simple as loosening the screws holding the rub material and sliding it in and out as needed then retightening. Similar to what you are doing now for height. Mull that over.Dickey38723.8810763889
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:16 pm ]
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Bruce, good idea.

Or maybe a dovetail down the center of the plywood, that way I can use two rub blocks and I can adjust the back one as well for thinner bodies.
Author:  LarryH [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:08 am ]
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As cool as the idea is it seems a bit creepy to hold the guitar and roll it through the jig (ala Taylor's system) instead of running a router/trimmer around the outside of the guitar. Just visually it seems intimidating to not be able to really see the cut from the top and simply holding the guitar. I'm sure that after a couple of guitars one would get the system down but that first one has got to be a bit nerve racking I would think.

What kind of experience do you guys who have with this sort of jig? First guitar no problem? Or is the transition from hand held router to jig a bit disconcerting?


Larry
Author:  old man [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:46 am ]
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Larry, check out Don Williams jig, it lets you see everything. I used it on my first (which I've almost finished) and it worked like a charm. That being said, I don't suppose getting used to this type of jig would be much different than using a router table, as far as being able to see what's going on.

Ron
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